Sioned Williams MS – Plaid Cymru Member of the Senedd
You’ve been in the Senedd for 16 months now. Is it all, as you expected?
It’s a huge privilege to be able to raise issues that affect the communities I represent in the Senedd and ask questions of the First Minister and his ministers face to face. It can be frustrating when you don’t get a straight answer to your question and the rules in the Senedd Chamber are very strict so you can’t just get back on your feet and press for a reply. Having said that, I’ve managed to highlight issues both local and national which have resulted in change.
The work in the Senedd Committees – I’m a member of the Equalities and Social Justice Commitee and Children, Young People and Education Committee – is perhaps where you feel you have the most power to change things, though. I’ve been involved in writing reports on tackling Fuel Poverty, how to help people who are facing increasing levels of debt, and how to stop sexual harassment in schools and colleges – and the Government have accepted most of the recommendations made which will lead to changes in policy for the better.
Cardiff or Westminster?
Who has a greater importance to people’s lives in Wales. The MS or the MP?
Most of the areas that directly affect people’s lives in Wales are now controlled by the Welsh Government like Health, Education, Transport, and the Environment – so the role of the Senedd in passing laws in these areas and scrutinising Welsh Government spending and policy on these things is the most important role in my opinion. The Westminster Government still has most of the financial power which can limit what we can do to make policies in Wales for Wales, in the best interests of the Welsh people. So that’s why I’d like to see more powers transferred to the Senedd from Westminster so the people who are closest to their communities make the decisions based on the needs of their communities.
More Politicians?
Do we need more MSs? if so, why?
We definitely need more MSs. We have the smallest parliament in the whole of the UK – Scotland has 129 MSPs and Northern Ireland has 90 Members in its Assembly – this depsite the fact that the Senedd has more powers and responsibilities than when it was established. Before I was elected to the Senedd I was Chair of a Community Council. There were more members of the Community Council’s Finance Committee than there are on the Finance Committee of the Senedd! To look at the work of the Welsh Government in specific areas and ensure it’s spending its budget properly and efficiently, and carefully examine proposed laws is a very big responsibilty and more members will mean this work is done better.
In Westminster for example, it’s common for MPs to sit on only one Committee, which often have twice or three times the number of MPs on them to do this work, whereas in the Senedd, the vast majority of MSs are on two committees of only 5 or so members. I also think more members would create a healthier space between the Government and the backbenchers – which would perhaps encourage Labour MSs to question the Government more.
Democratic?
Do the proposed changes offer genuine democratic challenges to existing MSs? There are some very safe seats now but with these changes, the number one Labour politician in Port Talbot for example would have a guaranteed job for life.
I think it offers more challenge, not less. Parties always select their candidates, but if people don’t like that selection then they don’t have to vote for the party. Perhaps that will make people think harder about their votes locally rather than voting blindly for a party? It will also let people who feel they have to vote tactically to keep a certain party out, rather than for the candidate of their choice, to be able to vote according to their true wishes, and that their vote will count.
Wales
In your opinion, how is Wales doing? We are differing more and more from England. Are we doing OK?
It depends how you look at it. In differing more from England, I think that’s a positive thing because the policies and laws that are being enacted in Wales are serving our country’s needs better. We are able to say “Not in Wales” to Tory Government in Westminster on issues like fracking for example. We are not doing ok as regards tackling levels of poverty, and rather than managing the issues which result from poverty we should be focussing directly on measures to eradicate it. Successive Labour Welsh Governments in Wales have not taken the steps needed which has left Welsh households so vulnerable in the face of the storm which is now upon us. The people of Wales are also suffering because the main levers and resources that could help protect the familes of Wales remain at Westminster.
Independence
I know that you want more power for Wales, full independence. Has the mess with Brexit put you off at all?
Will you be marching on for Independence on Saturday 1st October?
I will be going to Cardiff to show my support for independence, although marching and waving flags alone will not bring the change we need and people need to remember that. You need to vote for a party that can deliver a referendum so the people of Wales can have a say – it’s the people that must and will decide what kind of future they think is best for our nation. I believe in independence because it clear to me that the United Kingdom is not a union of equals and Wales doesn’t receive the attention or funding it is rightly owed.
Other nations smaller than Wales have shown that it is possible to create a fairer society by ensuring decisions are made closer to the people they are meant to serve. Every week I hear the First Minister complain that the Welsh Government would like to do something, but can’t – because Westminster holds the purse strings. The Westminster Government stopped us developing a Tidal Lagoon in Swansea – think how valuable a project that would have been given the current energy crisis! Work needs to be done to ensure no-one in Wales would be worse off, but I think it’s time for the Welsh people to be masters of their own destiny.
Too many councils?
You’re the MS for South Wales West, covering 3 different councils: Swansea, NPT and Bridgend. Do we need that many councils? There are 47 English counties. If Swansea, NPT & Bridgend merged, 40 of the 47 English counties would still be larger than it.
It’s quite a challenge representing three council areas, but also very interesting to see how councils operate differently. I think closer working between councils is always a good thing especially when the borders are often rather odd and artificial when streets are literally cut in half and are in two separate authorities. Plaid Cymru believes that we need an new approach to creating new democratic leadership at community level across Wales and I support a regional way of co-operating and working in partnership.
Labour NPT
Labour lost Neath Port Talbot council at the last election. Why do you think that result came about?
Labour tried to claim that the Council’s school closure proposals were to blame for their loss. While it certainly played a part in turning some against Labour in the Swansea Valley, and contributed to the loss of their single seat in the Pontardawe area – in Alltwen – to Plaid Cymru) the proposed closure of Alltwen, Godre’rgraig and Llangiwg Schools did not influence the results in Cadoxton, Aberdulais, Neath North, Neath East, Cimla, Coedffranc Central, Briton Ferry East, or Briton Ferry West! There was no schools issue in 2017 when we won both seats in Pontardawe! I think the problem ran far deeper than any one policy or proposal.
For twenty-six years the county borough had been comfortably held by a single party, but May’s results showed that people in all parts of the county wanted change. I think it had more to do with the importance of politicians listening to those they serve, and that genuine consultation is at the heart of our democracy. No policy, no proposal and indeed no service can sustain itself if it does not take into account the views of those it affects. The school closure proposals were not the cause of Labour’s defeat, but a symptom of a much more serious problem. For decades Neath Port Talbot had a Council that has too often failed to cooperate, to listen and to hear what residents in all parts of the county have been saying.
Swansea Valley Schools
You have been heavily involved challenging the Swansea Valley school proposal. Can you explain what you have done and where we are now?
I opposed these plans from the very beginning – as a resident and Community Councillor for Alltwen where one of the schools earmarked for closure is situated. Since being elected to the Senedd I have pressed both the Minister for Education, the First Minister and the Future Generations Commissioner to intervene in order to stop these flawed plans from going ahead. I managed to get the Government to pause the process after I raised concerns about the consultation and although my protests fell on deaf ears in Neath Port Talbot Council initially, after the local election results in May and a Plaid Cymru / Independent coalition took power, I’m glad that the plans have now been paused as far as possible and a review will be held.
Godre’r’graig School
Should there be an enquiry into Godre’r’graig school closure?
I think that the community’s faith needs to be restored following the way the decision to shut the school was made. If that means an enquiry then I’m for it.
We have had Boris and Trump blatantly lying on the global stage and overall getting away with it. It seems to many residents in the Swansea Valley that lies, and inaccuracies have been told within reports to force the closure of these schools. Should those officers and politicians face any consequences if they have lied or deliberately misled? Taxpayers have already spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on this. If it was to go ahead, then it would run into the tens of millions of pounds. If you are caught lying (or misleading) in order to gain financial benefit, then isn’t that fraud?
I feel very strongly about this as does my party – Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader, Liz Saville Roberts MP, tabled a parliamentary motion calling for a law to hold politicians to account for lying, making it a criminal offence for politicians to deliberately lie to the public. Plaid Cymru’s proposal would bring the rules that already regulate business into politics.
It would require that public statements made by politicians are, to the best of their knowledge, factual and accurate, and would create a new and independent mechanism through which to challenge and hold to account those suspected of lying. I think recent events in Westminster and more locally would benefit from stricter rules on this and more accountability. For the sake of our democracy and the people it is meant to serve, we must restore people’s faith in politics. We can’t have faith in the decisions being made if we can’t trust the processes that led to them.
Plaid Cymru
Why isn’t Plaid Cymru appealing to more people across Wales? In the same way as the SNP are in Scotland.
A century of majority Labour Welsh voting patterns is a long one to try and break. It’s often forgotten that Scotland voted majority Conservative until as recently as the 1950s. Having said that, Plaid Cymru outperformed the SNP in the first devolved elections in 1999, so there’s no reason why we can’t replicate their success. Where we are in power, and people are seeing the difference we are making to their lives, Plaid Cymru tend to get re-elected with increased majorities with the odd exception. We saw that in the Senedd election results where we got record majorities in places like Arfon and Ceredigion, and in May’s council elections for example – where we gained overall control of councils such as Anglesey after being part of ruling coalitions.
In the other areas of Wales it’s tougher to get this recognition especially given the fact that Welsh media is so weak. Scotland is in a very different position. Scotland also has a long history of independent institutions – its own money, education system and legal system for example which have helped Scottish people retain a stronger sense of their own history and culture which is now reflected in their politics. In Wales because we don’t have a strong independent media, people see their lives through the lens of news written in England and rarely see their own communities reflected in drama, documentary or film. That makes a difference I think. I could write you a whole book about this!
Personal Achievement
What is your number one personal achievement as an MS thus far?
Getting the Welsh Government to agree to providing free school meals for everyone in primary school. I helped lead Plaid Cymru’s campaign on this issue and it was our main demand in entering a Co-operation Agreement with the Welsh Government. I made many speeches highlighting the extensive international research which shows how universal free school meals are key to ending child poverty because hungry children cannot learn and thus cannot reach their full potential. So knowing the difference that will make to families throughout Wales at this tough time, and how it will help give our children the best chance to learn and thrive, is definitely something of which I’m proud.
